How I learned to stop worrying and just buy a minivan already.

"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
11/24/2014 at 11:38 • Filed to: Minivan, odyssey, honda, mancard

Over much of the past decade, if you had asked me if my future car ownership experience would ever include the words "new car," "minivan," or "Honda," my enthusiast-based answers would have ranged from "no" to "hell no." But here I am with all three.

Yes, the wife and I purchased a brand new 2015 Honda Odyssey over the weekend. We had casually shopped vans over the past year or so, figuring we were already sold on a Town & Country whenever the time came. With the most power, features, and flexibility for the price, why would anyone spend $5k-$10k more for an Odyssey or Sienna? These suburbanites must be smoking crack (or snorting Oxycontin or whatever it is the suburbanites do nowadays.)

Casually discussing this purchase with any sense of enthusiasm among my friends and coworkers, the usual response is something along the lines of "Ugh, anything but a van." "Time to turn in your man card." "When are you going to put the stick figures on the back window?" It's funny how image-obsessed people are when it comes to cars. Maybe that's why Honda will sell you the same basic car under the Pilot name, complete with optional AWD, less interior space, a boxier exterior, and a vial of HGH in the glovebox so you can feel a little manlier and maybe rebut the comments from the peanut gallery. "No, it's an SUV." You have to be above this sort of talk because you're (hopefully) not a 14-year-old girl with a self-esteem problem.

About a month ago, we took the opportunity to actually rent – and live with – a Town & Country for an entire week. On day six, wife turned to me and said "It's just too much like a truck." In more technical terms, I think the bouncy solid rear axle, loud drivetrain, boomy interior, higher ride height, and thin Stow & Go seats had worn her down enough to convince me we should at least explore all the Odyssey hype. After a few days with a 2011 model from Carmax that had more latent problems than we cared to live with, we returned it and ended up with a brand new 2015 model for a justifiably higher price. I say "justifiably" because we're long-term owners with fastidious maintenance plans and we found that many used minivans were NOT previously owned by like-minded car enthusiasts. Can you believe that?!

So long story short, the original Lee Iacocca "van that drives like a car" was handily eclipsed by its Japanese emulators. I should probably point out here that the Chrysler is actually made in Canada, while the Honda is made in Alabama, about 40 miles from where I sit. For some reason, I still paid the same $880 destination fee as everyone else because Honda doesn't yet have a factory delivery program for the Odyssey. Can you believe that?!

In addition to being an enthusiast, I'm also something of a finance guy (both personally and professionally). I always considered it suicide to buy anything new. Why would you want all that depreciation? But the more I wrestled with the options, the more I realized that with a 10-year-plus ownership horizon, you're often trading early depreciation for unknown repairs and maintenance hassles down the line. For the average buyer (or the increasingly busy enthusiast), that often doesn't work out in favor of the used car. When I crunched my numbers 10 different ways, the actual monthly breakout of additional cost to buy new (vs a few years old) was immaterial. Under $10 a month. And we'd be getting the exact car we wanted, no compromises.

On a related note, coming from 90s and early 2000s Volkswagens for the past 15+ years, I'm anxious to see if the famed Honda reliability materializes. Given the fact that the owners' manual doesn't even have the maintenance schedule printed in it, I'm already starting to think it might. I guess the only reason Honda doesn't weld the hood shut is because it's made of aluminum, while the quarter panels are steel. I've heard that's a pain.

Owning and driving a minivan definitely requires an adjustment in your personal definition of "car enthusiast." Lateral g forces, acceleration, braking? It does all of those things just fine. Talk of "8 minutes around the Nurburgring" is replaced with "8 minutes around the Burger King." But what you give up in driving dynamics, you more than make up for in what the vehicle can accomplish: With roughly 90% of the same speed, handling, and economy of an average sedan, you get 2-3 times as much comfort, flexibility, hauling, and, in turn, stress reduction. The latter counts double for parents of young kids – at least for the ones who are too young to make fun of you for driving a van. They're the ones who think you're actually COOLER for driving a van.

For a long time, I've said that the most well-rounded car enthusiast can find the good in any vehicle, can appreciate good design and construction, loves a good drive, and even finds the joy in maintenance and the occasional repair. For its mission, the Odyssey was our winner and I'll rock it with a well-founded sense of pride and manliness.

If the wife lets me drive it, that is.

DISCUSSION (45)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 11:42

We all expect appropriate fast-car-slow posts from you on the topic of Odyssey-hooning. Go forth and do. If it's low enough that it's really just a tall unibody FWD wagon, it must be slid.

pauljones > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 11:43

Ash... you, sir, are my Batman.

As I've always said - there is nothing more manly than driving a minivan full of kids. It's a sign to the world that you got all kinds of laid nine ways to Sunday. It also means you have the opportunity to not simply partake in the world, but to also shape its future.

There is nothing more manly than that.

Raphmoe > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 11:57

Turn in your Jalop card.

Smh.

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/24/2014 at 11:59

I already checked on the availability of the tag "VTEC YO" but it was taken :(

I'm open to other suggestions...

BaconSandwich is tasty. > pauljones
11/24/2014 at 11:59

As a very soon-to-be dad, I'll totally agree with that.

For Sweden > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 11:59

Coulda had a Transit

Kinja'd!!!

FKA-RacecaR > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:01

Thank you for writing this. I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing the anti-mini van bullshit. It is bad around here at times, but also in my actual real life.

I was in the same mindset as you before we bought our Toyota Sienna. Then I test drove it. First thing I did was get on the highway and punch it. Boy did it ever scoot.

Plus like you said, the benefits of comfort, safety, room and the ability to haul stuff. It is fantastic!

I got to drive a Honda Odyssey when my wife and I traveled to Seattle for vacation. We were staying with my buddy and his family in early September. He needed to drop his car off for some exhaust work. He needed me to follow him with his Odyssey. Holy crap that thing was nice. It was a new one and fully loaded. So much better than our near base model Sienna.

Anyway, enjoy your minivan. Make sure and do some FWD burnouts when you are alone in it. I do them from time to time now with the family in it now that I know what to expect. Of course it is in safe conditions. My wife yells at me, the traction control light flashes, my oldest daughter laughs and thinks it awesome, and my youngest daughter yells and is slightly frightened.

For Sweden > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:01

"VTEC Just Kicked In Kids"

Also, you have to separate your tags with commas.

wbizarre - OEM fetishist > For Sweden
11/24/2014 at 12:03

Looks like it tried to stuff the entire bumper into its mouth, and couldn't fit it in all the way.

deekster_caddy > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:04

I can tell you for sure that if you ignore all maintenance and let it run out of oil, you will have reliability issues. My neighbors showed me that not all Hondas are actually reliable with this method, no matter how much I tried to help.

They are the only people I know who buy "recycled oil" and it hasn't treated them well.....

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:05

I grew up in a 109 Series IIa as the family hauler, I intend my kids grow up with a Land Rover as their family hauler. Hopefully the new Defender is worthy of the namesake.

Tekamul > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:07

Welcome to the minivan ranks. They are tough to beat for flexibility and capability.

Don't bother treating it nice, though. They all depreciate like meteors, because everyone assume you've got 3 kids who spend everyday puking and pooping all over the car.

Reliability wise, they eat brakes, the 6-spd seems to have fixed the transmission issues. I've owned an '06 for 4 years, mostly painless.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:11

Say what you want, but the minivan is still the vehicular version of crocs. Ugly, comfortable, durable and completely reviled by image conscious (obessed?) people like me. I don't like vans but I dislike fake SUV's even more so bravo sir. Happy vanning!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > For Sweden
11/24/2014 at 12:13

Yes, he needs to separate "Minivan Odyssey" from "Honda Mancard".

jariten1781 > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:14

I still paid the same $880 destination fee as everyone else because Honda doesn't yet have a factory delivery program for the Odyssey.

Every factory delivery program I'm aware of still charges the destination fee for whatever reason. Even the European factory delivery ones still have the destination charge.

djmt1 > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:15

Potential.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:16

YAAAAAA. Minivans. I'm 19 and I told my dad I want to inherit our Sienna as my second car since he's selling my TL.

19 year old who wants a minivan. If I was a girl, I'd consider that future husband material.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:17

Hndmn8r is just short enough. As is ODYSYUS.

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden
11/24/2014 at 12:19

Thanks, first time really posting to Oppo since the Kinja intro (which I still despise).

JGrabowMSt > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:21

Because the likelyhood of myself having offspring is near zero, just because I'm curious, is the primary selling point of the minivan the sliding door? I mean, at my house, I grew up in minivans, and I just never really enjoyed it (then again, my childhood was all about staying quiet and not bugging my parents, so "enjoyment" was very very subjective), but I personally love wagons (I mean, I own a Magnum after all).

If wagons had a sliding door, would they be more appealing, or is more than just the sliding door? Again, not trying to stir any pots, I'm just really curious because I've never comparison shopped against a minivan before, and don't really ever plan to.

T5Killer > For Sweden
11/24/2014 at 12:26

WANT

Ash78, voting early and often > JGrabowMSt
11/24/2014 at 12:26

The sliding door is a huge plus, but not a dealbreaker. My personal top choice was the new Durango, which IMO is the spiritual successor to the Magnum (I was a big fan and love wagons in general). It drove really well, but at the end of the day, only had about half the useful interior space of a proper van. If you dont need the ground clearance, vans will almost always be the winners. And among them all, the Ody was the most wagonlike that we found.

(Wife is comjng from an AWD Passat, fwiw. We just ran out of space and larger wagons are just hard to find, though I'd love an E350 or 5-series wagon one day...)

Gamecat235 > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:28

Having spent two weeks with a Sienna last year, and a week with one the year before that, and having borrowed a very good friends Odyssey for a couple of trips. I can say that I have very, very seriously considered a minivan at times. They are the best roadtrip vehicle when you have more than three people. You can take all of the stuff that kids need, everyone has space, and in terms of both the Sienna and Odyssey, I haven't heard much negative regarding ownership experience from those that have owned them (other than the initial price, but you get what you pay for).

Congrats on the new vehicle!

And, does this mean you may actually join us on Oppo?

Tapas > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:29

Buy a minivan, sure!

But make it cool/fun - as long as that isn't limited to the optional vacuum cleaner in the back.

Throw in a supercharger, do something kooky :)

Tohru > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:29

If you got a Touring or above, you could've gotten a Ford Transit XLT long wheelbase low roof with the EcoBoost and a limited slip diff. It has 8 seats, but since it's a long it has enough room in back for all the bullshit that kids require. You could fit 4 strollers back there without folding them up.

I priced out an XLT Long Low with quite a few toys and came up at $41,875. The Touring MSRP's at $42,030.

area man > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:30

Dude: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/any-oppos-need…

Ash78, voting early and often > Tohru
11/24/2014 at 12:33

I waited an extra year for the Transit and was sorely disappointed. The main practical problem is inventory: there are hundreds of other vans for every Transit wagon. The only one I got to see in person was a midrange model and it was basically a gussied-up work version. As a Ford shareholder and hopeful owner, shame on Ford for the weak marketing and execution.

I asked about the version you linked — special order only, and expect to pay a premium over MSRP. And you still get a lot less than the competition for the price.

It ends up like SMART — you have to really want that exact size or else you're just wasting your money. I really had my hopes up!

Tohru > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:36

Ah, shame. I haven't tried one out in person but it seemed like you got more for the money. Sucks that it's not the case.

What was the verdict on a CPO Econoline wagon? Or, if you wanted your kids to be the envy of the playground, a conversion van?

E92M3 > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:41

Glad to hear you didn't get the Chrysler after it's latest crash test results. The Honda will also hold it's value better. Not that it really matters if you drive it to 200k miles. Nothing wrong with buying new if that's the case. Minivans are usually abused by their messy occupants. Very hard to find a used one that doesn't have bicycle scratches halfway down the sides, and puke stains in the carpet.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 12:52

Kinja'd!!!

coulda had a V8.

I kid. We rode in an odyssey from Minneapolis to Indianapolis for the Indy 500. It was great.

burner'down > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 13:29

As the owner of a 2007 Town & Country, let me congratulate you on your purchase of a Honda. You made an excellent choice.

RallyWrench > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
11/24/2014 at 13:47

I drove my Vanagon all through high school & college. It's not a bad thing.

RallyWrench > Ash78, voting early and often
11/24/2014 at 13:49

Good on ya, I say. This one works just fine for me:

Kinja'd!!!

VoltRon > Ash78, voting early and often
11/26/2014 at 10:10

The minivan *is* a more logical, rational solution. But it's actually much more fun to have a Suburban. Higher seating position. More ground clearance. Unstoppable beast in snow/rain.

Ash78, voting early and often > VoltRon
11/26/2014 at 10:28

Assuming you want a truck, absolutely. However, if you really want a wagon, a low-riding minivan like the Odyssey is a great alternative. The Burban is a wee bit too big and unmaneuverable for our needs.

IMO, the best of both worlds is a unibody crossover-SUV like the new Durango. It drives like a large RWD car and has (optional) 4wd, V8, locking diffs, and pretty good towing in all trimlines.

Still on my list for my next car...

VoltRon > Ash78, voting early and often
11/26/2014 at 11:24

Good thoughts. And yes on the Durango. Looks much better than other midsize SUVs and you can get it with a nice lineup of V8s for now.

person > Ash78, voting early and often
12/22/2014 at 14:12

Kinja'd!!!

MPV

Amoore100 > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
03/19/2015 at 18:28

Hey, with a minivan you can comfortably take a bunch of friends anywhere, really...

Amoore100 > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches
03/19/2015 at 18:35

Put a V8 in an Ody. Anything is possible.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Amoore100
03/19/2015 at 18:50

Kinja'd!!!

Amoore100 > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches
03/19/2015 at 20:08

Kinja'd!!!

And probably a small enough V8. Choose one.

Riggald > Ash78, voting early and often
07/10/2015 at 06:00

In Europe, the minivan for drivers is the Ford S-Max. Is it not sold in NA?

Dunnik > Ash78, voting early and often
10/07/2015 at 00:56

Good for you. You’ve made a practical, sensible, costed choice. Your decision gives me hope that the 30 year-old suburban SUV trend will finally die, the vehicles to be replaced with wagons and minivans.

twitchykun(ate Schrödinger's cat) > Ash78, voting early and often
10/07/2015 at 09:13

Sorta figured you’d be writing articles for Jalopnik full-time by the time I made it back. Fascinating read.

“VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO!”

Michael Cohen > Ash78, voting early and often
10/07/2015 at 10:13

If you got a little Yiddish appreciation try for VTEC OY.

I hope you’re not in Illinois because come Spring I plan for an S2000 with the plate.